The last post on Horses for Sources - "Has the Lou Dobbs factor faded?" - certainly got several people voicing their opinions on the outsourcing of jobs to India (and please feel free to air your views publicly on this site rather than email them directly to me!). Personally, I think the whole argument about the pros and cons of offshoring services has been done-to-death, but one issue that has been raised, concerns the allocation of H1B Visas to offshore outsourcing suppliers looking to bolster their onshore workforces to improve their service delivery: Should offshore firms have the right to "import" their labor into the US in addition to "exporting" US jobs oversees?
I'm probably not the best person to provide an balanced argument here, being an H1B Visa-holder myself (but I don't work for an outsourcing provider), so I am inviting you to cast your vote to the left of this post. Personally, I have thoroughly enjoyed my experience working in the USA and helping some US firms develop their services - and hope I am adding some value along the way - and I strongly encourage skilled US workers to apply for temporary work visas to experience working in the UK (my country), Europe or Asia, if they have the opportunity. Working in dynamic business environments across the globe is such a great developmental experience for people in today's economy. However, the key issue now is whether the offshore outsourcing providers should be entitled to create onshore jobs for foreign workers to help run and develop outsourcing services. So have your say!
I did want to relay some key facts regarding temporary work visas that outsourcing providers typically use for skilled immigrant workers. There are two types of Visas outsourcing suppliers use to bring skilled immigrant workers over to the US:
1) The L1 Visa: This applies to an employee working within a foreign subsidiary of a global firm, has over a year of service with that company already completed, and wants to be transferred to a US office of that organization. The requirement is simply that the firm was unable to find a local US worker who could do that exact job, and that job required a specific qualifying expertise, or was a unique management position that fulfilled certain (strict) qualifying criteria. The sponsoring firm will have to prove they advertised the job first in the US and was unable to find a suitable candidate. There is no cap on L1s, and 7 of the top 10 L1 users in 2006, according to the US Senate - were Outsourcing providers that were either headquartered, or had their largest employment base, located in India.
TOP TEN COMPANIES RECEIVING L1 VISAS (2006)
| Rank | Company | Headquarters | Primary Employment Base | L-1 Visa Received |
| 1 | Tata | Mumbai, India | India | 4887 |
| 2 | Cognizant Technology Solutions | New Jersey | India | 3520 |
| 3 | IBM | Armonk, New York | USA | 1237 |
| 4 | Satyam | Hyderabad, India | India | 950 |
| 5 | Wipro | Bangalore, India | India | 839 |
| 6 | Hindustan Computers Ltd. (HCL) | Noida, India | India | 511 |
| 7 | Deloitte & Touche LLP | New York, New York | USA | 512 |
| 8 | Patni Computer Systems | Mumbai, India | India | 440 |
| 9 | Intel Corporation | Santa Clara, California | USA | 394 |
| 10 | Kanbay | Chicago, Pune, Hyderabad, and Chennai | India | 329 |
Source: US Senate, 2007
2) The H1-B Visa: H1B visas apply to skilled individuals applying for jobs with US companies. As long as the US company is a registered corporation or LLC, the visa is dependent on the university qualifications of the individual to fulfill a specialist role within that US company. Unlike L1s, H1Bs are subject to a cap for commercial workers, and this allocation of H1B Visas has been dramatically reduced from 195,000 in 2003 to only 65,000 in 2008, with an additional 20,000 made available for worked with US Masters degrees. This is an exceedingly minute percentage of the US working population (of the fractions of a single percentile). Like L1s, 7 of the top 10 H1B users in 2006, according to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service - were Outsourcing providers that were either headquartered, or had their largest employment base, located in India.
TOP TEN COMPANIES RECEIVING H1-B VISAS (2006)
| Rank | Company | Headquarters | Primary Employment Base | H-1Bs received 2006 | |
| 1 | Infosys | Bangalore, India | India | 4,908 | |
| 2 | Wipro | Bangalore, India | India | 4,002 | |
| 3 | Microsoft | Redmond, Washington | USA | 3,117 | |
| 4 | Tata | Mumbai, India | India | 3,046 | |
| 5 | Satyam | Hyderabad, India | India | 2,880 | |
| 6 | Cognizant Technology Solutions | Teaneck, New Jersey | India | 2,226 | |
| 7 | Patni Computer Systems | Mumbai, India | India | 1,391 | |
| 8 | IBM | Armonk, New York | USA | 1,130 | |
| 9 | Oracle Corporation | Redwood Shores, California | USA | 1,022 | |
| 10 | Larsen & Toubro Infotech | Mumbai, India | India | 947 | |
B/w - thanks to Steve Dunkerley from The Finance Director magazine for contributing these data points,
PF.
As an American who has worked in the IT Industry for over 20 years running an IT Professional Services and Consulting Organization, I would like to say that the current abuse and corruption within the H-1B and L-1 visa program must stop and the “True” Intent of the law must be implemented!!
As to the H-1B Visa, in “Concept” the program is good for America, but it’s implementation is currently harming America, and to a certain degree, can be consider a treasonous act against the American people. That’s right “Treasonous” . The concept of the H-1B is to scan the globe for some of the most talent individuals in the world. These individuals have skills and talent the are far above what you can find in the US Market Place. We bring these individuals in to add a competitive advantage to firms in the US which supports our US based economy. These individuals could be Artist, Writers, Chemists, Physicists, Researchers, Computers Science experts, etc. These individuals must have a very special skill or talent that cannot be found in the US market or are very scarce in the US Market. As a result, these individuals with these talents should be paid at the high end to above the salary range that Americans with comparable would get, since these people are of “Exceptional Talent”. By adding these people to our Economy, their skills and talent help produce more jobs and opportunity ‘HERE IN THE USA”. That is the Concept, the implementation is different. The current implementation is destroying any opportunity that would bolster the US Economy though this program, which the H-1B program was intended for!!!!
In implementation, the H-1Bs is paid far less than an American….”a violation of the law”. The skills are commonly found in the US market place, thus the only “Exceptional Talent” that the H-1B has is the fact that they are “Cheaper” than Americans. Do you really believe that INDIA is the source of the majority of the H-1B, because these people are disproportionately of “Exceptional Talent” as compared to the rest of the world? The H-1B should be evenly distributed from all around the world. But that’s not the case. Most of the H-1Bs and L-1 Visa holders are from Indian Outsourcing firms looking to take advantage and profit on America’s hide, using ...and abusing ... the H-1B and L-1 Programs.
The “Treasonous” Act is the fact that a “Truly” Exceptional H-1B Candidate from some other part of the world who may have contributed to Technological development here in the USA, which would of bolstered and strengthen our US based economy, thus helping America stay Free, has not been given the opportunity to enter the US under this program. Since the Indian Outsourcing firm dominate the H1-B applications process with their workers, whose main talent is being “Cheaper than Americans”, the truly talented one that can help American are shut out!!!
I read on the web that Tata and Infosys put in for 20K of Applications each for H-1B (40k total), of which Tata got around 3000 H-1B in 2006 and Infosys got close to 5000 H1-Bs. The 20K of H1-b applications in 2006 for Tata represented 1/3 of their entire global workforce.
I’m all for bring talent into our country, but the H-1B has transitioned into a highway for “Cheap Labor” to displace a higher paid US based worker. That is not the “Spirit nor Intent” of Law.
As to the L-1 Visa, there maybe even more abuse and corruption than H-1B program. An L-1 cannot work at the capacity as a “Body Shopper”. Funny, some of the Top users of the L-1 are Body Shoppers…hmmmm…could there be abuse?
At present Tata is making very good money on its use of the H1-B and L-1 Visa based workers in the USA. As it is, these workers are paid less than what Americans Citizens or Permanent Residents would get..... which goes against the spirit and intent of the law!!! In year 2006, TCS imported from India over 4800 workers working on the L-1 Visa alone.
Under the L-1 Visa, if any of these persons have worked under the capacity of Body shopping, working at a client site or even working on a client fix cost project, or hourly time & materials project for an end client of Tata, this maybe a massive violation of the Spirit and Intent of the law. With the 2008 elections coming in US, TCS cannot hide from their past and present deeds.
It's simple, Foreign Corporation and Outsoucing firms should NOT be allowed to use the H1-B program....that is good for America!
If you have time, please check out my Blog at Peningo Opinion Blog
Thank you
Ed
Peningo Systems
Posted by: Edward Pellon | Jul 16, 2007 at 04:24 PM
I wrote about the Senate investigation of nine Indian firms back on May 16th. The underlying implication of the investigation was that unfair practices and perhaps even coercion (financial or otherwise) were creating advantages for these particular organizations. With the political shift toward a Democratic, anti-outsourcing Congress, we should not be surprised by these types of activities.
More interesting is the tracking of Compete America (www.competeamerica.org), self-described as "ensuring that the United States has the talent necessary for continued innovation, job creation and economic expansion in a worldwide economy." Although a bit dated, the 8/31/06 testimony of Texas Instrument's Legislative Affairs VP may summarize their position well. Per his testimony:
"I would like to make three main points this morning:
1) The United States’ long-term competitiveness and ability to innovate is tied to the intellectual brainpower of its workers, particularly the science and engineering workforce. Unfortunately, the U.S. is not producing enough American-born
professionals in these fields to meet the demand.
2) We will always want to have access to the best talent in the world but building a domestic pipeline of science and engineering talent must be a national imperative.
3) Access to talent is not just about more H-1B visas. It is also about green card reform that ensures that foreign nationals can remain in the United States and build their careers
here."
Should be interesting to watch.
Best,
Mark
Posted by: Mark Stelzner | Jul 16, 2007 at 09:46 AM
As an American who has worked in the IT Industry for over 20 years running an IT Professional Services and Consulting Organization, I would like to say that the current abuse and corruption within the H-1B and L-1 visa program must stop and the “True” Intent of the law must be implemented!!
As to the H-1B Visa, in “Concept” the program is good for America, but it’s implementation is currently harming America, and to a certain degree, can be consider a treasonous act against the American people. That’s right “Treasonous” . The concept of the H-1B is to scan the globe for some of the most talent individuals in the world. These individuals have skills and talent the are far above what you can find in the US Market Place. We bring these individuals in to add a competitive advantage to firms in the US which supports our US based economy. These individuals could be Artist, Writers, Chemists, Physicists, Researchers, Computers Science experts, etc. These individuals must have a very special skill or talent that cannot be found in the US market or are very scarce in the US Market. As a result, these individuals with these talents should be paid at the high end to above the salary range that Americans with comparable would get, since these people are of “Exceptional Talent”. By adding these people to out Economy, their skill and talent help produce more jobs and opportunity ‘HERE IN THE USA”. That is the Concept, the implementation is different. The current implementation is destroying any opportunity that would bolster the US Economy though this program, which the H-1B program was intended for!!!!
In implementation, the H-1Bs is paid far less than an American….”a violation of the law”. The skills are commonly found in the US market place, thus the only “Exceptional Talent” that the H-1B has is the fact that they are “Cheaper” than Americans. Do your really believe that INDIA is the source of the majority of the H-1B, because these people are disproportionately of “Exceptional Talent” as compared to the rest of the world? The H-1B should be evenly distributed from all around the world. But that’s not the case. Most of the H-1Bs and L-1 Visa are from Indian Outsourcing firms looking to take advantage and profit on America’s hide, using the H-1B and L-1 Programs.
The “Treasonous” Act is the fact that a “Truly” Exceptional H-1B Candidate from some other part of the world who may have contributed to Technological development here in the USA, which would of bolstered and strengthen our US based economy, thus helping keep America Free, has not been given the opportunity to enter the US under this program, since the Indian Outsourcing firm dominate the applications with their worked whose main talent is being “Cheaper than Americans”
I read on the web that Tata and Infosys put in for 20K of Applications each for H-1Bs (40k total), of which Tata got around 3000 H-1Bs in 2006 and Infosys got close to 5000 H1-Bs. The 20K of H1-B applicants for Tata represented 1/3 of their entire global workforce. Twenty thousand workers of "Exceptional Talent"? It's B.S. and you know it!
I’m all for bring talent into our country, but the H-1B has transitioned into a highway for “Immigrant Cheap Labor” to displace a higher paid US based worker….and that is not the “Spirit nor Intent” of Law.
As to the L-1 Visa, there maybe even more abuse and corruption than H-1B program. An L-1 cannot work at the capacity as a “Body Shopper”. Funny, some of the Top users of the L-1 are Body Shoppers…hmmmm…could there be abuse?
At present Tata is making very good money on its use of the H1-B and L-1 Visa based workers in the USA. As it is, these workers are paid less than what Americans Citizens or Permanent Residents would get..... which goes against the spirit and intent of the law!!! In year 2006, TCS imported from India over 4800 workers working on the L-1 Visa alone.
Under the L-1 Visa, if any of these persons have worked under the capacity of Body shopping, working at a client site or even working on a client fix cost, or hourly time & materials project for an end client of Tata, this maybe a massive violation of the Spirit and Intent of the law. With the 2008 elections coming in US, TCS cannot hide from their past and present.....here is some detail on the L-1.
It's simple Foreign Corporation and Outsourcing firms should be allowed to use the H1-B program....that is good for America!
If you have time, please check out my Blog at Peningo Opinion Blog
Thanks you!
Posted by: Edward | Jul 16, 2007 at 08:48 AM
As an American who has worked in the IT Industry for over 20 years running an IT Professional Services and Consulting Organization, I would like to say that the current abuse and corruption within the H-1B and L-1 visa program must stop and the “True” Intent of the law must be implemented!!
As to the H-1B Visa, in “Concept” the program is good for America, but it’s implementation is currently harming America, and to a certain degree, can be consider a treasonous act against the American people. That’s right “Treasonous” . The concept of the H-1B is to scan the globe for some of the most talent individuals in the world. These individuals have skills and talent the are far above what you can find in the US Market Place. We bring these individuals in to add a competitive advantage to firms in the US which supports our US based economy. These individuals could be Artist, Writers, Chemists, Physicists, Researchers, Computers Science experts, etc. These individuals must have a very special skill or talent that cannot be found in the US market or are very scarce in the US Market. As a result, these individuals with these talents should be paid at the high end to above the salary range that Americans with comparable would get, since these people are of “Exceptional Talent”. By adding these people to out Economy, their skill and talent help produce more jobs and opportunity ‘HERE IN THE USA”. That is the Concept, the implementation is different. The current implementation is destroying any opportunity that would bolster the US Economy though this program, which the H-1B program was intended for!!!!
In implementation, the H-1Bs is paid far less than an American….”a violation of the law”. The skills are commonly found in the US market place, thus the only “Exceptional Talent” that the H-1B has is the fact that they are “Cheaper” than Americans. Do your really believe that INDIA is the source of the majority of the H-1B, because these people are disproportionately of “Exceptional Talent” as compared to the rest of the world? The H-1B should be evenly distributed from all around the world. But that’s not the case. Most of the H-1Bs and L-1 Visa are from Indian Outsourcing firms looking to take advantage and profit on America’s hide, using the H-1B and L-1 Programs.
The “Treasonous” Act is the fact that a “Truly” Exceptional H-1B Candidate from some other part of the world who may have contributed to Technological development here in the USA, which would of bolstered and strengthen our US based economy, thus helping keep America Free, has not been given the opportunity to enter the US under this program, since the Indian Outsourcing firm dominate the applications with their worked whose main talent is being “Cheaper than Americans”
I read on the web that Tata and Infosys put in for 20K of Applications each for H-1Bs (40k total), of which Tata got around 3000 H-1Bs in 2006 and Infosys got close to 5000 H1-Bs. The 20K of H1-B applicants for Tata represented 1/3 of their entire global workforce. Twenty thousand workers of "Exceptional Talent"? It's B.S. and you know it!
I’m all for bring talent into our country, but the H-1B has transitioned into a highway for “Immigrant Cheap Labor” to displace a higher paid US based worker….and that is not the “Spirit nor Intent” of Law.
As to the L-1 Visa, there maybe even more abuse and corruption than H-1B program. An L-1 cannot work at the capacity as a “Body Shopper”. Funny, some of the Top users of the L-1 are Body Shoppers…hmmmm…could there be abuse?
At present Tata is making very good money on its use of the H1-B and L-1 Visa based workers in the USA. As it is, these workers are paid less than what Americans Citizens or Permanent Residents would get..... which goes against the spirit and intent of the law!!! In year 2006, TCS imported from India over 4800 workers working on the L-1 Visa alone.
Under the L-1 Visa, if any of these persons have worked under the capacity of Body shopping, working at a client site or even working on a client fix cost, or hourly time & materials project for an end client of Tata, this maybe a massive violation of the Spirit and Intent of the law. With the 2008 elections coming in US, TCS cannot hide from their past and present.....here is some detail on the L-1.
It's simple Foreign Corporation and Outsourcing firms should be allowed to use the H1-B program....that is good for America!
If you have time, please check out my Blog at Peningo Opinion Blog
Thanks you!
Posted by: Edward | Jul 16, 2007 at 08:25 AM
Hi Phil. Just one clarification/comment from my recent post on CIO.com blogs at advice.cio.com/asengupta/an_indian_cheap_coder_monkey_worker_drone_responds:
Indian outsourcers domination of H1B visas is merely a symptom of H1B shortage: Much has been made of the fact that Indian outsourcers dominate the H1B visas. When I got my H1B in 1999, the major recipients of H1Bs were firms like Oracle and Microsoft. So what changed? My hypothesis: the Indian outsourcers were better prepared for the fact that the H1B quota would run out in days and submitted a large number of applications during the brief window of availability. Despite what you may have heard, larger American companies usually require a complex web of approvals before an H1B worker can be hired. Thus, they were not able to move as aggressively. I believe if the H1B quota was larger, you would again see the IT majors dominate the H1B recipient lists. Don’t blame the Indians for being better prepared for the H1B shortage!
Posted by: Apu | Jul 15, 2007 at 07:06 PM